Projection the Enemy of Peace Part III::
The following was sent to me by Dawoud , a genuinely spiritual Sufi/Muslim Imam in response to parts one and two. I met Dawoud at Alex Grey's CoSM and was impressed by his presence and perspective.
© 2006 Dawoud and Jonathan Zap
(from Dawoud:)
Peace;
I read the blog you posted on your website. While there is a great deal in it that is beyond dispute (for which you have earned my respect), I must admonish you for your shortsightedness and limited vision in the matter of the religion of Islam. Frankly, I expect better of someone who is skilled in dream interpretation, and has had a glimpse of the Other Side.
Before I begin, I must make clear that what I am writing is from an Islamic perspective - but not the Islamic perspective you are accustomed to. I append this caveat because I am the embodiment of a great many human imperfections; yet I represent a large percentage of Muslims / Sufis that get no voice outside our community - and whose existence almost all non-Muslims are completely unaware. But it would be to your profit to attempt to see things from an alternative perspective - which I remember is precisely what you wanted (further evidence of your deserving of my respect). I pray I am able to live up to the task; and that you forgive me some occasionally harsh comments.
Your strong pro-Jewish stance is not lost on me. Is it possible to be pro-Islamic, and not against the Jewish people? Yes. You may be surprised to hear this. A friend of mine, a Jewish radio producer, told me that when he was in Israel, he hung out with some Palestinians. They told him "We hate the Israeli government, but we love the Jewish people". In other words, the Palestinians he spoke to could separate the crimes against humanity that Israel commits regularly from the true essence of the Jewish people. I find, if I am to accept the evidence of my senses, the same conclusion. I know or know of Jews who are deeply religious / spiritual, generous, creative, courageous, and to whom many great contributions to the whole of humanity may be rightfully attributed. They are more Muslim than many Muslims!
I also know some Jews who are not fit to be called human. In fact, for this precise reason they are not fit to be called Jews; except in matters of descriptive convenience. I do not accept Zionism as being in any way a part of Judaism. It is secular and denies the essence of Judaism; while pretending to do the exact opposite. I do not recognize Israel as a legitimate nation. BTW; I read your blog. I find the evidence to support Israel unacceptable - and the opinions of those who disagree are to me irrelevant.
The following statement may confuse you: there is not at this time a single Islamic government anywhere on earth. Neither I nor a great number of Muslims accept the House of Saud, HAMAS, the Taliban, etc. as Islamic governments. The Saudis are part of a deviant sect called the Wahhabi. They were founded in the 17th century by Muhammad abdal Wahhab, a man whom many denounce as a deviant from authentic Islam. His successor (whose name escapes my memory at the moment) was the leader of a band of rebels. He was caught, tried, and sentenced to death. Some learned Sheikhs then questioned him about his beliefs; and found that he was not a true Believer after all; and was an apostate. He was executed without being allowed to make a prayer.
In other words, an early leader of Wahhbbism - the sect that dominates Arabia today - was found to be an infidel. Interesting, huh?
A equally deviant, yet opposing sect of Islam, the Salafiyyah (which claims that any progress in Islam is a deviation from the authentic Salafiyyah: who were those closest to the Prophet.Yet, their beliefs and methods bear little resemblance to those of the Prophet and the authentic Salafiyyah), are vying for dominance of Islam. In the prisons, they are especially troublesome (I know this because I am an Imam in the prisons myself). Osama bin Laden, and his Al-Qaeda network are all aficionados of the Salafi cult.
Both are not only vying for dominance but are being played against each other.
Lets address a currently controversial subject: the Prophet Muhammad's alleged pedophilia.
Doubtless you are unaware of his biography (beyond the self-serving drivel anti-Islamic propagandists peddle as truth). His first (and most beloved) wife was Khadija. She was 15 years his senior. How can accusations of pedophilia explain this?
Lets look at the facts. First of all, everyone who is remotely informed knows Aisha (the one who was betrothed to Muhammad) was 12 when they married. That's about the same time as some American girls and boys lose their virginity (I lost my virginity when I was 13). He married her. You must admit that this is more noble than what an actual pedophile would do. And he waited until she began menstruating before consummating the marriage; which means that biologically, she was a woman. Besides, in those times, people has a lower life expectancy rate. If one usually died at 35 or 40 (due to the lack of medicine and technological advances) marrying at about 12 is expected. Romeo and Juliet were about 14 when they drank that potion. And consider this: the father of Aisha, Abu Bakr Siddiq, was actually the one to give his daughter to Muhammed. He begged Muhammed to take her...he was a Prophet. Who wouldn't want their daughter married to a messenger of God? Not to mention that Semitic and other ancient cultures used marriage to strengthen ties of tribes and families. It still happens today.
I was truly amused by your quote from the "Koran" (probably N. J. Dawood's translation; published by Penguin Classics - which is useful only as an excellent addition to a fireplace or paper recycling plant) "Men are the masters of women because Allah made one to excel the other, and as to those whom you fear desertion or disobedience leave them alone in the bed and beat them."
You misquoted the worst existing English translation. Pitiful. You should know better than that.
This is what the verse REALLY says"
4: 34-35. "Men are the "qawwaamuuna" (overseers / protectors: from the word "Wali" which means trusted protector who watches over and advises) of women, because Allah has given men more strength than the other, and because men are required to spend their wealth for the maintenance of women. Therefore, honorable women are devoutly obedient and guard their husband's property and their own honor. As to those for whom you fear (rebellion, corrupt or immoral behavior, possible infidelity), first admonish them and refuse to share your bed., Then if necessary, " alayhinna sabiila" (usually translated as "beat them: but implies a different type of beating, as in beating someone down with an argument or harsh statement - and not a physical beating). Then, if they amend their conduct, take no further action against them, and make no excuses to punish them."
Quite different from what your version implied, isn't it?
Furthermore, the Qur'an mandates that ANYONE who accuses ANYONE of such crimes, is required to produce four reliable eyewitnesses. If one of them is untrustworthy (i.e. a liar or slanderer), then he is to receive the same punishment that the accused would have received. This is in place to protect a woman's honor.
What puzzles me is why the people who commit crimes of abuse against their women have the audacity to call themselves Muslims. The Qur'an and the uswatun hassanatun (beautiful example) of the Prophet (sas) makes it clear that women are not to be treated like this, but honored.
The denizens of the North African / Arab communities who believe that the oppression of women is part and parcel of Islam are clearly in a state of kuf (disbelief / infidelity / disconnectedness from God / incapable of decency). True Islam means nothing to them; it is only a thin decoration crudely pasted over their own lust for political power - a power they neither understand nor merit.
I also believe that the leaders of these communities in their indigenous and adapted lands are economically enslaved to the kuffar (one who practices / accepts / embodies kuf)Â banking elite in one way or another - by choice and consent. Examine the history of the last 250 years, and you will not find a single example of an oppressive "Muslim" nation or community that was itself not economic slaves to the international banking elite. The intolerable and subhuman attitude the have towards their own women is a clear symptom of this. The prevention of economic autonomy always causes a backlash of oppression towards a weaker group.
It is an act of nihilistic suicide: differing from suicide bombing only by the speed in which the senseless destruction takes place. It is little wonder that many of these communities are in a state of arrested development! How can they learn anything when their "first teachers" are not permitted to know anything or to evolve as is the right Allah granted them?
They should not be permitted to enjoy the same rights that Muslims are entitled to; until they change. It is a sad state of affairs that this is permitted to continue. I recall a Hadith where the Prophet (sas) said that the day would come when the Light of Islam would dim in the east and shine in the west. It's evident that we here in the west are destined to inherit Islam; the east is losing it. The only way these blasphemers of Islamic rules regarding women could find my statements offensive is if they recognized themselves in what I said. Their "honor" is not damaged - because they have none to begin with.
You quoted 9:5 (When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, beleaguer them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.). You (or www.teawithterrorists.com) very conveniently omitted the beginning of the chapter; which addresses Muhammad directly. Taken in the whole context, it is a direct instruction to the Prophet for a specific historical event: i.e. a truce in the war between the Muslims of Medina (the city where Muhammad and his followers were exiled following 10 years of persecution for which they took no acts of revenge - something no slanderer of Islam ever adequately explained); which afterwards, the war - which the Quaraesh Arabs and NOT the Muslims started - would resume. Furthermore, there is no implication in this verse to substantiate anyone's insistence - Muslim or non-Muslim - that this is a "standing order".
It may interest you to know that in my work as an Imam in the prisons, I bring in literature for the inmates. Not a single piece that I bring in is published in Saudi Arabia.
I'd write a comment about the article in the Saturday Guardian Review; but I'm laughing too hard to write. The writer is an idiot - his citing of N.J. Dawoood's "celebrated" translation confirmed this. His kind quoting Hadith does not impress me or anyone else who knows Islam.
Jonathan, I could debunk every single one of the misquotes I found in the article, and website you linked to with ease, were it not to make undue demands upon my time and your patience.
Furthermore, I could easily offers an identical critique of your Torah and Talmund. I don't; because it resolves nothing. But I am laughing at your whole image of Islam.
And I'm not apologizing for what some so-called Muslims have done. I and many others admonish them quite severely. Did you know that there are over three dozen fatwas issued by several Islamic authorities against Osama bin Laden, al Zaqawri, al-Qaeda, terrorism, and suicide bombing? And you will, if you are observant, notice that every single Western city that suffered a severe terrorist attack hosts an Islamic community that issued such fatwas. Yes; including New York City. You never heard of these fatwas because your only sources are biased against Islam; and they will never give us a fair voice in their publications. Never.
Do you remember when you read bin Laden's fatwa announcing "Jihad" (a concept he doesn't understand and doesn't want to understand anymore than you do) against the West? I can't imagine how you couldn't. Anyway, he is, if you were to humor me and accept my interpretation of Qur'an and Hadith, guilty of the exact same misinterpretation of Islamic Scripture as any dyed-in-the-wool Zionist - except that it superficially supports his political agenda. What further escapes your notice is the clear facts that:
1. Jihad does not mean Holy War (holy war translated into Arabic is "Qataala al-Qudus: a contradiction in terms in classical Arabic - and not the "Arabonics" some people speak)
2. The declaration of offensive war by a body of Muslims must, according to Shari'ah (Islamic Law) follow strict guidelines - none of which bin Laden followed at any time of his life.
3. Terrorism does not in any way conform to the Shari'ah on the conduct of warfare.
4. Bin Laden does NOT, nor has he ever, had the authority to issue fatwas. Do you have the authority to edit and append additions to the Talmund?
Furthermore, suicide bombing is strictly forbidden in Islam - despite what ANYONE, Muslim or non-Muslim, says about martyrdom. Suicide bombers are not going to heaven. Most of the young boys that do this sort of thing are misinformed. They can't go to school, since the Zionists put curfews and build walls around their cities. They think their families will be rewarded for their suicide deeds, but this is a lie. ANY suicide bomber or their leaders would, in a real Islamic court of law, be guilty without question. The only question that would need to be addressed would be if they were actual Muslims; and should be allowed to make a prayer before the death sentence is executed (like in the case of the early Wahabbi criminal).
Allow me to append my own views to the recent controversies about the cartoon depicting the Prophet Muhammad (sas). As a Muslim who refuses to resort to violence, I think an alternative opinion is in order.
The cartoon is blasphemous, no argument. Those who made and published it are guilty of blasphemy and an unforgivable insensitivity to Muslims. But, in the Qur'an, Allah said to us "Leave the kaffriun (plural of kuffar) to Me". To be honest, I'm not worried about these things. Of course, I oppose the blasphemies of the kaffriun. But I'm not worried. I've heard worse things said about the Prophet (sas) than that cartoon; and I responded; but not with hysteria or violence. Allah said in His Qur'an, to respond with logic and gentle arguments.
Some cry "Freedom of Speech!". But isn't freedom a means to an end? What about the responsibilities that go with it? And I'll tell you this: those who point their fingers at Muslims who speak out against this are blissfully ignorant of an important fact: while Muslims have made disrespectful and often uncalled for comments about some Jews, Christians, etc.: WE HAVE NEVER SLADERED YOUR PROPHETS. If you don't understand the significance of this, you will never understand us.
As far as those Muslims who are howling and becoming violent, they only harm themselves (although I suppose an emotional catharsis of some kind is necessary). It solves nothing, and only offers a temporary victory to the Kaffriun (the only kind of victory the Kaffriun will ever enjoy). I make no apology for them; only an explanation. The nihilistic mindset that has contaminated Muslims for decades has damaged our spirit and prevented us from realizing our human potential. The world had changed into a soulless, global dictatorship that has sapped the strength and spirit out of everyone. It enslaves in a manner that hides the chains that bind us. Islam, for which I speak, was meant to be joyful, beautiful, heroic, romantic, and a means of enlightening and nearness to the Supreme Being. It has been contaminated; as has all life. We watch heroism on TV; but are not allowed to participate in it ourselves: and this slavery, this cage with invisible bars is called "World Peace".
And those in power, who are trying to engulf the world in this "peace' while consolidating all wealth and power to themselves, must feed parasitically off the rest of humanity. Those who find their backs against the wall react in what way they are able - even to their own destruction and the destruction of that which they believe they're fighting for. This is because most have little or no understanding of the nature of the world.
The state of Kuf carries within it a self-destruct mechanism. They are destroying themselves - an at the same time spitting on the only people who can guide them out of their suicidal actions! History is full of people who slandered the Prophet (sas) and tried to destroy Islam. The passage of time proved them to be irrelevant; and Islam rose triumphant. Allah is best to know. Perhaps some of the Kuffar will change. In a week, or ten years. It can happen. It does happen. I refer my fellow Muslims to Surat-ul Asr.
In other words, hysteria will solve nothing; and will only exacerbate the problem. Worse; it will strengthen the means by which we are kept in a state of ignorance and slavery - a state few people are even aware of.
The military and the governments are not in power. They have no real power in and of themselves. Furthermore, the US, Britain, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Russia, China, Japan, France, Germany, Israel, Palestine, etc. etc ARE NOT NATIONS. They are postal divisions whose governments and military exist to administer local policies for the REAL nations of the earth. Who are they? They include but are not limited to the IMF, the WTO, The World Bank, the Bilderberger Group, the Club of Rome, the Paris Club, the Trilateral Commission, and the Federal Reserve. All governments and armies are absolutely powerless against them. It is important to understand this.
Furthermore, one must understand that their attitude toward us is not one of hate. In their view, we are not important enough to be hated. We are an expendable resource. Do you hate the chicken that you ate for dinner the other night?
Many of the controversies in the world are really symptom of greater problems. Many Muslims can't see what's really happening in the world and become worked up into a frenzy over near-meaningless controversies: while the Kaffriun become more and more powerful. I remember hearing a Bosnian Imam tell of how the women and children would be raped and murdered in the streets; while the men were in the mosques arguing about what the Shari'ah says about the proper length of their beards!
But what few really see is how Islam relates to the aforementioned "nations", and the International Banking Elite. Their power is based upon a disingenuous form of usury. They create an ever increasing enslavement through debt for money that doesn't exist. Paper money being a prime example: it has no intrinsic value in itself, and is worthless - not even backed by gold or silver anymore, but represents a debt. How can a people - ANY people - be expected to realize their human potential and be free of the kind of psychological and spiritual illnesses that plague us today if they are not economically free?
The SWIFT network is a private banking internet system that trades over 1.5 trillion dollars a day - but less than .0001% of this represents goods and services that exist in the real world. The rest is fiction; abstract, intangible. A lie! Ecological systems can become polluted. Human bodies can become polluted and carry disease. Machines accumulate dirt and require cleaning. Why do we not see that monetary systems also become polluted?
Islam is the only spiritual and political force that exists with the means to dismantle their power base - and at the same time set up an alternative economy that is holistic and useful to all humanity. No economic system based on usury can tolerate this. This is the REAL reason why Islam is "The Enemy"; but few people understand this. The Kaffriun (or at least their leaders) don't really care what we believe or if we make five daily prayers or grow beards. Only that we are an economically and psychologically domesticated, docile and spiritless parody of Islam.
In the light of these facts, we see that racism and other ills of society are not only symptoms of a greater problem, but concentration on them to the exclusion of the real causes diverts our attention from the true nature of the problems facing us.
The Matrix has us. I took the red pill a long time ago. What pill do you chose?
From what I gather, you are in serious danger; despite your sincere intentions. You are very close to saying, in effect, "since I have no direct experience of "good" Muslims, and I have not permitted the development of the ability to extrapolate the possibility of their existence, they do not and cannot exist". What follows is that since you would believe the "good" Muslim to be a fictitious creature that cannot exist within your carefully constructed reality, those Muslims who do exist are a clear and present danger; and it is irresponsible to continue to allow them to exist. The logic of your position demands it.
Adolph Hitler once said "The greatest strength of the totalitarian state is that it forces those who fear it to imitate it". You are ripe to fulfill his prognostication. If you cannot overcome your "blind spot" you will degenerate into the very thing you hate.
I say this to everyone (myself included): if you want to find your true enemy, you have no need for maps of Afghanistan or Israel or the location of your neighborhood mosque, synagogue, deli, or halal cab stand. All you need is a mirror.
Do yourself a favor: stay away from websites that peddle hate propaganda (and that's exactly what it is - an you should be ashamed of yourself for not seeing it), and don't watch FOX or ABC or NBC or CBS or CNN. Insha Allah, you may develop an unbiased viewpoint.
Ma'a Salaam
Please don't be offended by my blunt statements; no disrespect is intended. I eagerly anticipate specific questions from you and pray this email finds you well.
response from Jonathan:
Thank you, thank you, I’m not the least bit offended, I’m gratified because this is exactly what I asked and hoped you would do, which is to be the severest possible critic of the point of view expressed in my essay. I am a lifelong believer and practitioner of the Socratic dialogue and honor your ability not to take personal offense at what I wrote but to come back with the strongest possible arguments. I will immediately post your dissenting point of view on my site at the end of the essay and advertise its presence on the main page of my site. I’ll leave out your name unless you give me permission to use it. An answer to your point of view seems to have emerged from the dreamtime. Last night, during the same general time period that your email was written, or at least sent, I had a dream that seems a response to it. I was standing just inside a Cathedral (which looked like Saint Patrick’s in New York, which I recently revisited) and was saying aloud or thinking aloud (no particular audience was apparent) that religionists needed to account for what was happening in the whole field of their religion, however deviant or twisted certain aspects were from what they consider to be the “true” religion. I emphasized that religions had a “field” existence and everything associated with them was part of that field. I pointed out that more religionists need to do what Jung was willing to do. Jung, who was the son of a Protestant minister, and continued to consider himself a Christian, had the courage to ask himself an essential question that few Christians have had the courage to ask: Why has more blood been spilled in the name of Christianity than anything else? In his book, Aion, he came up with core answers. He found that there were essential flaws in the Christian mythos that originated not in Christ, but in how the mythos was constructed by the earliest church fathers. I feel there are core flaws in the mythos of all the Abrahamic religions that are in need of deep reform.
But those, like yourself, who continue to identify with a particular tradition have a difficult task. I immediately told you about my essay and asked you to attempt to debunk it because I could see that you were a person who was imbued with the inner living spirit of some mystical branch and you identified yourself as Sufi/Muslim. I knew I had met somebody from the world on which (as I admitted in my essay) I am most prone to project the shadow, and who was capable of not responding mechanically and stereotypically with xenophobic tribal identification, but was capable of accessing the inner living core of this spiritual path. Strongly supportive of this intuitive evaluation is your statement that you are the “…embodiment of a great many human imperfections;” That you have the honesty and self awareness to make such a statement is, for me, an enormous qualification, and tells me I am dealing with an authentically spiritual person, not a possessed self righteous hypocrite, which is what you so often encounter as those who aggressively claim to be personifying a spiritual tradition.
In response to many of the particularities of your counter arguments, in most cases I am not the person with enough competence in Koran translation issues and intricacies of Middle Eastern politics and history to evaluate all of it, but will certainly include all of it for the reader to make their own evaluations. Some of what you present suggests that your competence is also very partial. For example, you state that some of the suicide bombers are ignorant because Israeli walls and curfews keep them from going to school. But I read in an anti-Israeli publication that Palestinians are, on average, better educated with more years of schooling than other Arab groups. You imply that many are brought up to hate Israelis and love Jews, but I have seen much evidence that many Palestinian children are taught that all Jews (not just Israelis) are descended from apes and pigs. No Israeli curfews or walls prevent education from happening in Saudi Arabia, and those people have more money than God, why are they the source of an ignorant form of Islam that you disown? The 911 terrorists were largely Saudis from educated, wealthy families. This is an example of many cases where you fall into the fallacy of explaining the pathologies occurring in the field of Islam as reaction formations to Western oppression. If we are to allow that kind of rationalization, then we could explain away Israeli brutality by pointing out that they are five million surrounded by three hundred million largely hostile Islamists, or that they act out because of the holocaust and millennia of oppression by other groups including Muslims. That way of explanation takes us nowhere.
You challenge English versions of the Koran and then say “This is what the verse REALLY says,” Well every religious person claims to know what the sacred text REALLY says, and they so often contradict each other. How can I, entirely ignorant of the source languages of an ancient text, be sure that your alternative translation is what it REALLY says? When you translate into English from an ancient text can you ever claim with 100% veracity that you know what it REALLY says? When it comes to the Hebrew Bible I don’t make any excuses for it, I openly and unapologetically reject a great deal of what it says, so does Reform Judiasm, which I consider the mainstream of Judiasm. Maybe your version is more correct than what I quoted, but maybe denial of the shadow which exists in your tradition, and all traditions, interferes with your objective scholarship, your statement that you know what it “REALLY” says suggests that, your admirable acknowledgement of your personal imperfections should probably be extended to acknowledge human imperfections as a native English speaking person understanding an ancient text written in archaic language. Is there nothing in the Koran and Hadiths that you find objectionable? My guess is that the Koran, like the Bible, is a mass of contradictions, that some verses will be inspired and speak to the most noble human intentions, and others will be oppressive patriarchal bullshit that needs to be openly repudiated. You also say that the cartoonists are “guilty of blasphemy.” Maybe that statement would be true if they were Muslims, since they weren’t, they are at most guilty of poor judgment in their expression of freedom of expression. People who start killing and rioting because of cartoons are guilty of insane fundamentalism, one of the greatest sources of evil in human history. If you want to kill because of a cartoon you are taking your religion much too seriously. No group has been the victim of more degrading cartoons and other representations than the Jews, but you don’t see similar violent protests about that. Instead of the apologetic, politically correct hand-wringing because a couple of people in the imperialist Zionist aggressor nation of Denmark might have expressed something offensive to Islam, sane Muslims like yourself should be criticizing those who use cartoons as an excuse for violence and hatred. You quote Allah as saying “Leave the Kaffriun to me.” To me that sounds like the ominous saying of a mafia godfather, “I’ll take care of them.” To my ear that sounds like another version of the male patriarchal godhead like we find in the Hebrew Bible which I reject. You don’t have anything to say about all the ubiquitous Muslim promotions of the notorious counterfeit The Protocols of Zion. I also find it troubling that even so moderate a Muslim as yourself finds the sins of Danish cartoonists to be "unforgivable." If they are permanently unforgiven I can only imagine what Israelis must be. How can there be peace in the Middle East if even cartoonists cannot be forgiven?
You also state, “Islam is the only spiritual and political force that exists with the means to dismantle their power base - and at the same time set up an alternative economy that is holistic and useful to all humanity.” Huh? In what reality is that supposed to happen, wouldn’t you have to convert or eliminate all the infidels first? Would people who continue to identify themselves as Christians, Jews or secular willingly participate in that? Sounds like a deluded fundamentalist utopian thought form which would only exacerbate violence and religious war. If you believe in such statements, I have to return your question and ask what color pills are you taking?
I emphatically share your closing statement, “Please don't be offended by my blunt statements; no disrespect is intended. I eagerly anticipate specific questions from you and pray this email finds you well.” I greatly value the aggressive Socratic Dialogue and anyone with enough character to engage in it, we need the confrontational nonviolent exchange of differing viewpoints, that is the sort of Jihad this plane of existence needs, and that’s why I will gladly publish on my site, and advertise, your opposing points of view and any further words or cartoons you wish to add.
I also agree with you that the place to locate the enemy is in the mirror. That is my challenge to you, so far you still seem to be looking through the glass darkly, but I want you to look into the mirror at the whole field of Islam to find the inner enemy of the living spirit of it which you personify.
Peace,
I'm deeply grateful and honored that you have published my letter. And thank you for the foresight
of protecting my anonymity. I don't mind having my name on there: if I didn't want it read, I wouldn't
have written it - and I am responsible for what I write.I will, as time goes on, send some other writings of mine to you: you may do with them what you see fit.
May Allah bless and protect you.
Ma'a Salaam, your brother in Abrahamic Faith;
Dawoud
(some formating messed up in what follows, we're working on it)
Dawoud,
Jonathan Responds:
Thank you for allowing me to use your name, I am extremely grateful for the opportunity to pursue this
dialogue into whatever unexpected directions it may go. The strange result of this gratitude will be,
however, for me to continue my discourse in an even more aggressive and confrontational style. This
has frequently gotten me into trouble with people because they take it personally or experience it as an
attack. What’s really going on is that if I accept someone as an equal in Socratic dialogue then my
approach is aggressive and confrontational----what’s happening is that I am now addressing them
directly without the laborious chore of social niceties and instead I speak to them as I speak to myself
in my own mind where I want to cut through illusions and get to the core of something, and I tend to
do this by attacking some proposition to find out what’s left, what’s the core of truth that stands up to
attack. In the Jewish tradition it is considered quite acceptable to doubt and aggressively question
God and his motives and methods, etc. As one Rabbi put it, “God can take it.” This is my instinctive
approach, “The truth can take it.” Terence McKenna pointed out something similar, when you
approach the truth you shouldn’t have to avert your eyes and kneel before it keeping your distance as
though it were some fragile edifice that might crumble if you sneezed at an inopportune moment. I was
brought up in a skeptical/scientific/analytical/New York/ Jewish/intellectual setting where blunt
confrontational Socratic dialogue was the norm-----though to many from other cultures it seems
abrasive and insulting, but that is not the intent.Also, the object of contemplation most likely to bring out that idol over-turning confrontational
skeptic in me is a religious structure or thought form that makes all sorts of lofty claims, claims of
supremacy over those not initiated into its mysteries, etc and especially if at same time such claims are
made, practitioners who identify themselves as part of this religion are out killing and maiming in its
name. Such an object of contemplation will focus my mind into a harsh penetrating light, it will not suit
me to respectfully avert my eyes and proceed on the assumption that the scholars and practitioners of
this religion know more than me and I should humbly seek their illumination.Having disclaimed this, I would like to respond to the article you sent me on sacred Islamic
sexuality. Here’s the link (http://www.gaia-web.org/gaia-wicca/philosophy/sexuality/islam.html)for those who would like to read what you sent first. My reaction is that this document reeks of a wounded defensive narcissistic attitude and
unwillingness to confront what is really happening in the Muslim world. Yes, in all the great religions
we can find hidden treasures, and the defensive religionist can always take out the coat of many colors
and tell us about their super heros from the past and their great shining moments---the golden oldies,
but I want them to step out of the cloud of incense and nostalgic self congratulation in the inner court
yard and look out the window at what is happening out on the street and confront how their religion is combusting with the buzzing, bustling madness of mass human actuality. Religions should be held to this standard because they mostly purport themselves to be spiritual paths that are like thousand lane highways, like the millions showing up to make pilgrimage to Mecca (but sometimes get crushed in stampedes)--- they
present themselves and proselytize themselves as structures that can accommodate great masses of
people and provide a way for them to find some sort of spiritual paradise. But at the same time they
don’t won’t to be held in any way accountable for actual results, where darkness erupts, that is the
fault of the individual wretched sinner, or the deviant sect, these are not the true ones! The religious
structure can never be doubted or blamed, the fault lies always with the wretched humanity making
use of it. Personally I am what some would call an elitist (while I think of myself as someone who
respects the hierarchies of nature), so I don’t expect great things from the mass of humanity, and I
don’t regard any spiritual path as able to reliably ramp up the lowest common denominator factors into a transcendent experience for all but the few. I believe it is the quality of the seeker that makes more
difference than the path that is sought. Also I come from (though may no longer be exactly within) the
Jewish path which respects other spiritual paths as equally valid ways to know the divine and which
does not encourage proselytizing which is so characteristic of Christianity and Islam.So what I want you to confront and pierce with empathic vision as an insider is the gigantic, gigantic sexual pathology that is dominating the lives of great numbers of Muslims alive today. The linked document is a bit of confectionary escapism because it totally omits this subject. Fine, hidden away some where Islam had its share of tantric sex as spiritual alchemy which most religions have a version of, possibly excepting Christianity. The West is not projecting the shadow on Islam because it fears its sexual vitality. The writer would like to imagine that the shadow projection comes from uptight repressed Christians
fearing Islam’s superior eros. Every twisted system wants to pretend that people hate them out of
envy, like Bush saying, “They hate us because we are free.” Maybe some people hated hippies because
of their apparent sexual freedom, but this is not what people are reacting to in Islam, what they are
reacting to is the gigantic oppression, torture and murder of women. I won’t give you the
documentation here, go to womensassistance.com, go to rawa.org (RAWA---Revolutionary Afghan
Women’s Association----courageous Afghani woman rebelling from Islamic Fundamentalism), and read
Jan Goodwin’s The Price of Honor---Muslim Women lift the Veil of Secrecy in the Islamic World. Yeah,
sure, in theory, all religions have gospels describing how their followers can be leading these divinely
enlightened lives, but meanwhile here’s what’s actually going on…. As Gurdjieff said about another
religion, “The problem with Christians is that they are supposed to love their enemies but most of
them don’t even know how to love their friends.” Eastern religions, with more credibility, have all sorts
of theories and rituals and techniques for sacred sexuality, but such things tend to work much better in
theory, in exceptional cases, and especially in inflated lore with little evidence. When these practices
combine with human actuality results are typically much messier. All sorts of exalted Eastern sages
came to this country ready to initiate Westerners into their transcendent sexual practices but usually
these quickly degenerated into guru as Jabba the Hut with young caucasian hotties on leashes---- a
kinky pathologized sex cult with a deceptive patina of Eastern mysticism.Most of what is spilling out onto the streets with Islam right now is virulent sexual pathology, the
sexuality of fascism where sex is entirely metaphor/vessel for sadistic will to power and entirely
unerotic. That is why pedophilia is so rampant in Muslim countries. If you want to accomplish
something spiritual help shed light on these gigantic horrors, and then in your odd moments you can
wax nostalgic about what the super stars of Islam supposedly did in the past and so forth. I’m more
interested in what it is doing now, and most of what I see is pathology, not transcendence. Sure there
is sexual pathology everywhere, but the Islamic world is a huge hot spot right now. In the Middle Ages
I would be ranting about the Christians burning five million women as witches. Some religions, at some
times, are the fertile ground for blood harvests, and others aren’t. You rarely hear about Taoists
burning women and killing people over cartoons. What accounts for these differences? I want to
pierce to the heart of the darkness, have my own theories, but I want to see your attention turned to
this unpleasant object of contemplation because it is a moral imperative to do something about it.So that is my rant for today, the complete lack of diplomacy is a mark of my respect for you as a
genuine seeker, since you are, I feel you can take it.To find out more about my view of sexuality/eros see the category with that name in the writing section
of my website.
Peace,
I read your "Abrasive" response" with a smile: not one of sarcasm or smugness; but one of gleeful anticipation of an enjoyable, profitable, and probably endless argument!
When my time permits, expect an email with the response your well constructed and thought out arguments merit.
Your brother in the Search for Truth:
Dawoud
Brief response from Sean Moffitt of womensassitance.com
I also had a chance to read the blog from Kamal S. The touching sex manual as spoken by the prophet is a compilation of recorded sayings from either the Hadiths or the Koran. The account fails to mention that Aisha was only six years old when she was married to Mohammed, and although that particular child marriage appears to be a happy one, most modern child marriages don't start with the little girl saying to her husband "you are a perfect Muslim in every way."
response from Jonathan:
Dawoud,
I would like to get your thoughts on two documents on the following website http://www.howardbloom.net/ Islam's War against the West and 1.300 Year Timeline of Militant Islam. I take what Howard Bloom says with many grains of salt, but these two articles seem well documented and document Islam, from the days of the prophet, as a religion of war with violent Jihad against the infidel right at its core. Global, undocumented dismals, that this POV is beneath contempt, etc. will only support this thesis of militant Islam which needs to be contradicted by historic facts and evidence.
note to readers: Join the dialogue! Leave your comments in the guest book bellow.
The next entry was written by Sean Moffitt of the Womens Assistance Fund and is entitled Jihad Against the Feminine http://www.zaporacle.com/textpattern/article/89/jihad-against-the-feminine and is a real eye-opener.
Dawoud responds:
Responses from Sean:
I'm a little confused...I didn't use Dawoods translations from the Quran...Are there two Dawoods here? What attempt at translation is pathetic? Is he referring to Jihad against the feminine? This person speaking in the below email seem vehement about his point of view but I wonder if he is really talking to the right people. Shouldn't he be speaking to the violent abusive populations of the Islamic world rather than trying to tell us they aren't Islamic? Shouldn't he be telling them they aren't islamic? I'm not assuming Arabic is synonymous with Islam. There were more people killed in Africa over the cartoon riots than anywhere else...writings about zero point energy are not going to penetrate the "poison" of women having their eyes gouged out in the name of Islam nor is it going to change the Sharia laws as they are currently written. I'm sorry, but he's completely missing the point. Whatever else "true" Islam may be it certainly isn't taking much of a stand against the burning of women.
Sean
Also from Sean:
Hey Jonathan
I'm afraid Dawood probably didn't actually read the article or the references cited because I don't know of the other Dawood he is refering to. The translations I used, cited in the document under the quotes from the Quran are from respected Islamic scholar Abdulla Yusuf Ali and M.H Shakir. My site has nothing to do with hate mongering and everything to do with getting information out to the public, most of whom, including Muslims, are completely ignorant of the burnings. From the 1.3 billion Muslims, a large fraction of whom I'm aware are not Arab, there is a deafening silence about these burnings. I'm also aware the Quranic Arabic is so full of subtle nuances that virgins can also mean white grapes and beating can also mean touching with a feather but Mr Dawood is living in a dreamworld if he thinks that Islam has nothing to do with the abuse of women in these countries. But again, he should be talking to the people burning the women. Fundamentalism is pathetic regardless of which faith, not some specific translation of it.
... I'll be working on a short document about Sharia laws here very soon, because the subtle Arabic used to interpret the actual laws seems to encourage and enable the abuse of women. Anyone that disagrees needs to take a closer look. According to Shanhaz at the Islamabad shelter only 4% of honor killings are prosecuted because the women are immoral.
Sean
Dawoud sent the following (before he had a chance to read responses from me and Sean):
Muhammad (pbuh) travelled for five hundred thousand light-years, after which he arrived at the fifth paradise which is called Jannat al Naeem: "the Garden of Beauty and Felicity." Its door is made of mixed gold and silver from heaven. Jibraeel knocked at the door and a voice said: "Who is it?" "Jibraeel, bringing Muhammad (pbuh)." "Has he been sent for?" "Yes." "Welcome, Beloved one, to the fifth paradise!" The door opened and Muhammad (pbuh) saw five beautiful ladies whose radiant light among their servants made them appear like diamonds surrounded by pearls. His heart was moved towards them. He asked Jibraeel: "Who are these ladies?" He answered: "This is Hawwa (Eve), the mother of human beings, this is the Virgin Maryam (Mary), the mother of Isa (Jesus), this is Musa's (Moses') mother Yukabid, and this is Assia, the wife of Pharaoh." The fifth lady looked like a sun among stars. Her light shone over the rest of the inhabitants of that paradise like a gentle breeze passing through the tree-leaves. Jibraeel said: "This is an angel representing your daughter Fatima"
Muhammad (pbuh) asked: "Jibraeel, what is the secret of this paradise?" Jibraeel said: "Allah created this paradise to reflect the beauty and perfection of women. The light of this paradise is the source of the angelic lights of all women on earth. Women have been created to carry the secret of creation in themselves. Allah has honoured them greatly by making their wombs the repository of His word which represents the Spirit. He looks at the most sacred place and there descends His mercy and blessings. He perfected that place and covered it with three protective layers to shelter it from any damage. The first is a layer of light, the second a layer of love, and the third a layer of beauty. There he fashions and creates human beings after His likeness, as Muhammad (pbuh) said: 'Allah created Adam after His likeness.' He orders the angels of the womb to perfect His creation by giving the baby life, beauty, health, intelligence, and all kinds of perfect attributes that will make each one distinguished among human beings."
"Allah gave women five angelic qualities which men rarely have. They are the source of peace, as Allah said that He created them "so that you might find rest in them" (30:21). This is the attribute of the first paradise which is named "the Abode of Peace." They are oasis of constancy in the midst of chaos and change. That is why they give birth as the mother nurtures and shelters the baby more reliably than the father. This is the attribute of the second paradise, which is named 'the Abode of Constancy.' They perpetuate generations. Through their offspring Allah creates angelic prophets and saints who establish His perpetual remembrance on earth as the angels establish it in heaven. This is the attribute of the third paradise which is named 'the Abode of Eternity.' They are generous and bountiful. They are described as 'a fertile land' in all Scriptures because they give without counting, including life. They sacrifice themselves for the sake of another creation, and this is the attribute of the fourth paradise which is named 'the Sheltering Garden.' Finally, they are the source of Beauty. Through their softness and subtlety, Allah has crowned the earth with the diadem of angelic grace. This is the attribute of the fifth paradise which is named "the Garden of Beauty."
Dawoud
It is important to understand that the reality of the Zero Point Energy involves Water and Fire that are mixed in a unusual way, spiritually speaking (scientists see this as quantum fluctuations occurring in the zero point energy field).
This process happens at the speed of the Prophetic Heart, which is beyond the highest of the 3 types of speeds: physical (velocity of Light C), spiritual (speed of thoughts, imagination and of the Spirit) and Divine (speed of the Heart, which is known to us as "Presence").
Out of the state of death and submission comes the reality of Life. Allah {SWT} put the reality of Life inside the reality of Death.
"My earth and my heavens do not contained Me, but the heart of my believing Servant does contain ME."
Istighfar /Repentance is the Igniting of the Fire, Sins and Bad Action are the Fuel the ending result is Light. Because of that entrance of repentance, the appointed Sultan {QS} will make a Dua and through his Dua, the Sultan {QS} will release the Energy fields that are contained in the hadiths "My earth and my heavens do not contained Me, but the Heart of my believing Servant does contain ME". This Energy is Nur, which has no limit and is infinite in power. This is why scientists believe that the zero point energy has an infinite level of energy associated with it.
"Thou bringest the Living out of the dead, and Thou bringest the dead out of the Living;" (Surah 3, Verse 27).
That fire is coming from the Ocean of Hayat through the blessings of the 7.
So the cells will be 0 and they will look up to ask forgiveness to the 7.
In that state of boiling soup of repentance, the cells will melt and be completely liquefied until there is only the 7 floating above an Ocean of Water.
In that aspect, the zero energy level is the State of the Origin, of the Beginning.
Tooliju al layla fee al nahaari wa tooliju al nahaara fee al layli
Wa tukhriju al hayya mina al mayiti wa tukhriu al mayita mina al hayyi
Wa tarzuqu man tasha'u bighayri hisabin.
"You bring the Living from the Dead
and You bring the Dead from the Living
And You give sustenance to whom You like without without measure." 3:27
Allah {SWT} granted the secret of Hayat (Life) to Water which represents death or the zero point energy because of its perfect stillness and He {SWT} granted the secret of Death (destruction) to Fire which represents life because it is sustained through the Ocean of Hayat.
Through Prophet {SAW}, the Authority was granted, to a Servant to be born from fire in order to protect the innocence of Mankind, because it is not suitable for the Most Honorable Creature to be cursed. So one took the Curse of Mankind out of Love for Prophet {SAW}.
It is impossible to escape the Love for the Prophet {SAW}.
Tooliju al layla fee al nahaari wa tooliju al nahaara fee al layli
Wa tukhriju al hayya mina al mayiti wa tukhriu al mayita mina al hayyi
Wa tarzuqu man tasha'u bighayri hisabin.
Therefore, for the very first time, Water became the Fountain of Life and Fire became the Source of Destruction through the secret of the Sirr as-Sirr station.
----
Tooliju al layla fee al nahaari wa tooliju al nahaara fee al layli
Wa tukhriju al hayya mina al mayiti wa tukhriu al mayita mina al hayyi
Wa tarzuqu man tasha'u bighayri hisabin.
This is why we recite these Ayat is Salatul Nejad/ Salvation]
Since the time of the Crossroad (33:72 We did indeed offer the Trust to the Heavens and the Earth and the Mountains; but they refused to undertake it, being afraid thereof: but man undertook it;- He was indeed unjust and foolishthe time of Al Amanat, Verse 72, Surah 33), when Iblis accepted to carry the burden and to be put on the cross at the place of the Honored Man and by wearing his image so that it would look as if the curse of creation (Angels and scholars, which are represented by the people cursing the image of Iblis appearing on the cross as Jesus Christ) is falling on mankind, since this time, the miraj of Iblis has been in the opposite direction. The more he rebels, the higher he is raised, the same way the more dunya the fire burns, the more purified Man becomes.
Dawoud
Response from Jonathan:
Yes, Dawoud, I said something like that, I also told you that I have a prejudice toward
fundamentalists of all sorts---- Christian, Jewish and Islamic, and I wanted you to have a
chance to point out errors in my view of things Islamic that might be faulty due to my
projections. The problem is that your way of persuasion is undermining that and costing
you credibility, at least in my eyes. I am very swayed by documented facts, but that is not, for
the most part what you are providing, and you seem to be very much in the grip of projection
in your last email. I feel worried for you when you call the WAF website hysterical and hate-
mongering and do so in an hysterical tone! I've read that entire website and all I can tell
you is that as an English teacher and a writer I found the tone to be sober and factual with
almost every statement carefully documented by reputable sources. This is in dramatic
contrast to your tone and your undocumented assertions. I agree with Sean that you repeatedly
state how easily you could debunk his assertions and quotations. which begs the question: why don't
you? That's what would sway me, but actually I have a better reality test challenge for you.
I don't have any competence in sorting between claims and counter claims about
alternate translations of ancient texts. I do, however, claim competence and have credentials
(a BA and MA in English, 14 years teaching English) in decoding English text, and I have read
the WAF website in its entirety a while ago. You have made a claim that it is hysterical and
hate-mongering. Please establish your credibiltiy by giving me some quotes from that
website to support that statement, maybe I missed something due to some prejudice. If so, open
my eyes to a tone of hysteria (which you described as "fever pitched") and evidence of
hate-mongering on this site.
What seems especially absurd is your following up this criticism of hysteria and hate mongering with
naming calling: "Your glorified primate friends..." Now if this isn't pot calling the kettle black typecircular projection I don't know what is. Then you say "The logic of their positions demand that they begin
immediate acts of genocide against all Muslims." Huh? First of all you have a fictious "they." From the
hysteria of your tone I feel like I should look out my window and see a horde of primate friends dancing around
a fire burning Islamic effigies and shouting slogans. There is no they, I know one person, Sean, who is working on this and
he works with and for Islamic women. Next you go off into some really hysterical messianic gandiosity:
"Starting with me, because I pose an intellectual threat to their dogma of hate - physical acts are of limited danger,
but I plant seeds within hearts and minds that will be carried from generation to generation. I am more dangerous to
them than any bomb wielding Arab: I threaten their whole world view and foundation of what they must develop
into a power infrastructure that opposes Islam in any way, shape or form."
There is no dogma of hate, and as far as posing an intellectual threat, that's what I have been trying to
get you to do, the problem is that it is less and less intellectual and more and more irrational and hyperbolic. I wanted
Socratic dialouge, I want an intellectual threat to what I believe, that's how I learn. If you want to threaten our world
view, please do so, both Sean and I are anti-fundamentalist, we have no religious agenda to want to crusade against
Islam or something like that. Threaten our world view with contrary documented evidence and well thought out
reasoning. Right now I am doubting your ability to emotionally disengage enough to have the sober reality testing
for a Socratic dialouge, I need you to support your statements about the WAF website because that is a modern English
document and one of us must be very wrong in our ability to interpret text. How can I trust you on ancient document
interpretation if you are so far off in what is the native language for both of us? Then you cause me to doubt
your reality testing even more with this statement, "If you truly enjoy the spiritual station you claim for yourself..." When did I ever
claim a "spiritual station" for myself? You're the guy that is supposed to be a Sufi Imam or something, where is this
statement coming from? Far from feeling my world view being threatened ,I'm starting to feel more like a fatigue
factor creeping into dialouge with you and many of my friends on the left about what's going on in the Middle East. I
keep hoping for Socratic dialouge, keep hoping to get challenged and educated by divergent points of view, but instead
seem to get mostly highly emotional projections, so I am starting to feel burned out on the subject, seems like no matter
what anyone does in relationship to the Middle East, the outcome is always to be pulled into quagmire. Maybe that's because
the human species is a primate species, much as we glorify ourselves, and the monkey mind keeps taking over, so yes
I do have glorified primate friends, and you are one of them, and there's about six billion of us. I can see us sitting in
a twelve step group with six billion chairs in a circle. I'll start off the round of introductions: "Hello, my name is Jonathan and
I'm a glorified primate." Now it's your turn....
The trialouge takes an interesting new turn in Part IV

